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 HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!! 
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
I don't think its ADD as much as people are lazy... "we live in an end user society" people are use to having it easy... getting people to spend 6 weeks or more learning a system in to days world is unrealistic... now is that wrong? YES, but its just the way it is now... I think that the hope with the pico3 would be to get as many people to give it a try as possible and hopefully 1 in 30 or better use it as a jumping off point...

that being sed, I do agree that having a good set of graphics and sound primitives would not hurt for beginners... but graphics and sound may not be that hard to begin with on this platform...

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Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:02 am
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
The system will have a very nice graphics api to draw lines, points, make colors, draw tiles, etc. I want you to write stuff in 10-20 lines of code that do stuff. Just like on the Atari, Apple, C64 in their BASICS -- so the graphics, sound, IO APIs will be very easy to use and straightforward, not crazy COM DirectX stuff :)

Andre'


Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:12 am
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
That sounds really cool. I'm looking forward to this.

@phillip V: I get what you're saying, and I agree with you, but I don't think you can blame it on laziness as much as how fast paced our society has become. People rushing through their days will look at something, and if it isn't immediately usable, they will say there is something wrong with it. It's amazing how many people, grown adults, are getting diagnosed with ADHD, and I think it's a direct result of our lifestyle habits. Kids not even out of puberty are being told they have to decide what they're going to do the rest of their lives. Your average adult can drive 100 miles in a day just commuting and running errands. The needs of the modern world are out of control and we can't keep up.


Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:55 am
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
I do agree FBOD, that's a big part of the problem...

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Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:35 pm
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
necron wrote:
No. I designed the HMX 100%, done. But, stopped the remaining process. I need more of a killer app. Truthfully, the damn XGS Pico edition keeps selling and selling and selling, so I need to update that, so I have been toying with a new design that can be assembled and soldered, but 10x more fun that the current model which is cool for an afternoon to learn soldering, but as a tool, its too hard to program in ASM for newbies.

Andre'


Which Pico kit keeps selling 1.0, 2.0 or the PCB addon kit?


Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:09 am
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
The 1.0 and 2.0, mostly the 2.0, every week, more and more orders.

Andre'


Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:46 pm
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
Why do you think its doing well, price maybe?


Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:15 pm
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
Doubt it. I'm betting educational value. Not only are you creating a small computer from scratch, complete with TV out and joystick in, but you also get the Black Arts book, which IMHO provides more console development secrets than any other book I've seen. It's also perfect for beginners but covers high end stuff. It's a winning product :-)

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Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:57 pm
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
Id personally prefer developing for an Atmel processor. Ive been following the xgamestation for years now but never got around to ordering a kit as I dont have time to try it out. Do you think the Pico is better than the AVR kit?


Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:19 pm
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
In some ways yes, in other ways, no. The AVR is more current, thus better for learning to program. However, the Pico is better for understanding how the hardware is put together and works. As a programmer, I'm actually always more interested in how the hardware works (if that makes sense :)).

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Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:50 pm
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
I find it all bit confusing which would be best to start with. Ive worked with ASM on 8051 nearly 20 years ago and ASM appeals to me. I can program in C/C++ and other languages but it isnt as interesting as working with registers etc myself. I dont need to get heavy into electronics but more into programming with various outputs and inputs at a low level. Game programming isnt my primary interest even though id like to know it as well.

The Chameleon appeals to me but it doesnt do PAL or could i get by using the VGA but then I wouldnt learn how to use video output?

XGS AVR is for C/C++ from what i can see, like you said less hardware. Atmel appeals to me but maybe this isnt the kit that Im looking for. Are the ASM drivers open source and are they documented?

Is the XGS micro edition maybe better for me or the Pico? Id probably buy them all along the track but where is it best for me to start?


Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:22 pm
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
If you're more interested in the programming side, then the Chameleon or XGS kits are probably your best bet. If you want to output to PAL, then you could still do this on the Chameleon; you'll simply have to wire your own output on the breakaway board. I like the Chameleon because it offers two chips; Propeller and AVR / PIC. It's also not primarily game oriented, like the XGS boards are.

Lee

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Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:23 pm
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
Thanks for that. :D I think I'll go for the chameleon I liked the fact it offered two chips and PS2 as well, pity it doesnt have an SD card reader. :(


Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:16 pm
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
There are SD libraries you can use in the Propeller chip on the Parallax website. All you need is an SD breakout component.

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Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:12 pm
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
Any updates on the new hardware?

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Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:21 pm
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
Not really, I had a hand held all designed and done, then decided that Propeller based hardware just can't sell enough units. So, right now, the next thing probably will be a XGS Pico 3 just to replace the aging pico 2, but the next real product might be robotic, still not sure.

There are just TOO many kits etc. out there now, and I need to sell at least 1000 units a month to make these things worthwhile and that's hard to do these days, 100 units a month is hard actually.

So, we will see. I have to really think what can be a huge product, and not "nerd" targeted, that's what is killing me -- selling to nerds. There just aren't enough of them to support sales unless you have 5000 products. Look at sparkfun for example, here's a company with 100's of products a few dozen employees and probably does $5-15M a year. All that work for such little ROI. I like products that sell $100M a year, and there are only 3-5 products. But, to get that kind of penetration you need a product that is nerdy, but also consumers can use. So, that's what I am thinking about. How do I get a programmer, electronics guy, and mech guy to buy it, but then also little Bobby can play with it and buy it at BestBuy or RadioShack.

We will see.

Of course, I am always up to be commissioned to do a game system :) So, if anyone knows a rich crazy guy that wants a product developed, they start at about $300K and go from there.

Andre'


Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:12 am
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
Why cant propeller based hardware sell enough units? Not powerful enough or you think it doesnt have enough developers that would be interested?

You definitely lack a handheld product.

You havent even fully explained what the HMX has, what kind of screen, what outputs and inputs. Why dont you come out with the full specs and features on here of the finished prototype?


Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:59 am
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
Cool gadgets are just so cheap, these days. Hell, you can buy an Android device for $100. Maybe you should target children and the uneducated? What I mean is, what about some kind of child related learning gadget?

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Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:42 pm
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
@Boro,

Without boring you with financial and business logic. The bottom line is it takes about $100K min to develop a product and manufacture it for a simple embedded system, that doesn't include the actual manufacturing cost. So, the problem is there are so many products and as Lee said for $100 you can get anything, so its hard to build something that will sell enough products to make an ROI these days. That said, the propeller actually have a VERY small user base, and its quite expensive as chips go. So, if I target nerds maybe I sell 1000-10000 a year, and that's not making anyone rich. So, what you need is something that targets consumers more.

Now, I would LOVE to kill leapfrog etc. and make kids toys or more consumer type products, but then the cost goes up to around $250-300K to develop it, and that's not what kills you. What kills you is that I need to come up with a ton of money to build 100,000 of them minimum to get the cost down to make an ROI and a high enough margin.

So, the problem with smaller companies like mine and parallax at the extreme edge of "small" is that when you are in that $100s K profit to low millions, its hard to make consumer product since you can develop it,but you can't build it without a ton of money.

Thus, lots of companies like mine are stuck in the range of building hobby products, since we can manufacture 100-1000 at time and afford it. But, what we really want to do is make something and build 10,000 to 100,000 at time. And let's say that I wanted to do a $50 product and sell for $100, ok, so at 10,000 units, that's $500K cash money. Now, I have 10,000 units of "x" and I have to sell them in 30 days or so, I am sunk. So, that's a LOT of risk.

Thus, unless you have fat funding, you have to bootstrap products, and get lucky.

As far as the HMX, I have abandoned it, as I said, I designed it all, and its sweet, very cool, but so what. I am going to sell like 1000 a year if that. And that's basically, a $20-50K profit per year, its just not worth it.

I need something that pushes into the 10,000 to 100,000 unit range. AND something, where the margin is so high, I can build 300-500 initially, sell them immediately, see a trend, then get ballsy, and make 1000-2500, sell those, and work up to 10,000 runs. But, hard to do. When I did softwre, we would run 100,000 units and not think about it, but with hardware, at $20-30 a pop, you THINK about.

So, what I am trying to do is think of something that CONSUMERS would like, that is fun to make, that nerds like to "bootstrap" sales initially, that doesn't cost an arm and leg to develop. Meaning, I don't need 10 different injection mold tools at $5-10K each.

I am open to suggestions, but "ideas" are great, I have thought of everything, but the trick is KNOWING I can sell them.

So, what I really need is walmart to say, "Andre', if you can make a $50 game console that does this that and the other", we will buy 100,000 of them guarantee. But, without that, I have to think of products that take 6-12 months to get done, cost in the $100-200K range, and then if I do want to make 1000 of them, its doable with me funding it.

Anyway, this is hard stuff, and you can loose your shirt with manufacturing.

Alas, I want to do a hand held, but I feel like, no matter how cool it is, I won't have the funds to sell it, manufacturer enough of them and pay for the marketing of it.

Finally, there are 10000000000 hand helds, and do we need another? I want to do something semi-novel if possible, that's either NEEDED by people and does something useful OR its something that there aren't a lot of like robots.

One thing I notice in robotics, hobby robotics is that the people developing these things are clueless about advanced AI, etc., so I have an "angle" at this where if I can build a really small, cheap, fun platform, it can be a serious tool for EEs, CS's, college people, while at the same time, kids would like them, if I have a mode where you can just drive them and shoot at each other.

So, that's why I am toying with micro robots.

On the other hand, I wonder right now, if I did do a tiny handheld, with a color TFT, touch screen, 32-bit processor, could I sell enough? And remember, to design a product, you need the hardware, API, manual, but then you ALSO need some damn apps, and I have to get those developed by me, others, etc. and that's more cost.

In essence, to do things right you need a good chunk of money to KNOW you are going to make money with a more consumer based console. And I don't know if "its cool" and I feel like making a console is enough to warrant the huge expenditure.

Round and round my brain goes :) And like I keep saying, its not the idea, I have a billion of those, but can you sell it? Can you fund it? Can you market it? And if I do something cheap like a XGS or hydra, then it targets NERDS too much, and their just aren't enough sales to get anywhere. 100s to 1000's just isn't enough, 10,000 - 100,000 is where you want to be...

Anyway, I am ranting :)

Andre'


Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:51 am
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
What about augmentation? So, people have lots of devices already. Look how many Apple iPhone's there are in the world! What if you developed and sold a device that, say, plugs into the bottom of an iPhone and provided something cool, along with a free app on the app store to control it? Perhaps, some kind of breakout tool that allows for a number of plugin style components? Or, even a robotics set, so you can add an array of components (servo's, motors etc) and turn your iPhone into a robot? You could even sell them in variable kits, so one kit would have six servo's, while another kit has four motors with a servo for steering. Thus, you could have a walking robot or a wheeled robot.

Just a thought, but something like that, based on something like an iPhone, would really get the headlines. I guess the pressure is, would Apple like it?

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Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:36 pm
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
Here's some examples

Of course, you don't have to use an iPhone. Maybe Android is the way to go? More freedom, that way.

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Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:15 pm
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
Financial and business logic doesnt bore me.

I thought you are the one who develops the product so that 100k for your product isnt 100k, but your time?

Yes there are so many products out there for $100, but many of the products out there that are successes today also had to come out in that environment. You are stuck in a mass production problem but I think you should be looking instead at a flexible platform that can cover many niches, just like you mention for the robot. You want to come out with the killer app but thats useless because you are not Sony etc.

I dont think you should be looking at the propeller that way. You are looking at it from the developer side. You should be looking at it from the consumer side. Can it allow you to build better solutions for customers than other micros? Is it a better platform, is it more flexible etc? Can its higher price be justified with better solutions?

I dont think targeting nerds is a bad move. You just need to give the nerds a platform that they can create consumer products with. Like you said you need to make 100,000 of them for consumers to get your costs down and compete with competitors. But people like us would be more willing to pay more for flexibility. If you could create a solution/platform that has flexible addons each "nerd" could custom make niche products that sell maybe 10's, maybe 100,s and if one gets lucky 1000's of these modified products.

Going back to the HMX - some users may want: wifi, ethernet, gps, mobile phone cabalities, cameras, night vision, large storage capacity etc. Now you need to have a base model that is compatible with the original HYDRA so that you can get those users. Then have one or two expansion slots for specific solutions. So you have a handheld game device that could be used as a datacollection device, remote camera, internet camera, remote control, gps logging device, weather station or whatever depending on the addon you attach. Im sure if you designed it that way you would get a lot more nerds. You are currently selling yourself as a gaming "nerd" educational kit developer. I personally dont care about that so much thats why I ordered the Chameleon and Im sure if you broadened outside the gaming "nerd" niche you would get many more like myself.

You say you need 300 HMX buyers, is it possible to start with 100 without the injection moulding cases etc. Can you just get a base unit out with a decent screen and some useful inputs and outputs? Id be willing to pay $50 or more than the lower high volume price initially if I knew it would be a product that would be developed in the long run and wouldnt be just a handheld gaming device. You would then get your high margin from people like us. Then when you have a enough sold you can work on addon cards plastics etc. Just create a base of 100-300 of us that learn how to develop for it like you have so far with your products.

I see you criticize the community development of other people's products but maybe you need to improve your side of community development. If you have sold 1000's of each product where can I find work that people are willing to share on the internet? Ive seen mention of an appstore here, why isnt a simple one built? If I buy more of your products what incentive do I have outside educational purposes? From what I see you dont have an outlet for developers apart from this forum. Your full documentation explanations and examples etc are a strength but are you maybe losing 100's if not 1000's of sales in your community weakness?

Quote:
On the other hand, I wonder right now, if I did do a tiny handheld, with a color TFT, touch screen, 32-bit processor, could I sell enough? And remember, to design a product, you need the hardware, API, manual, but then you ALSO need some damn apps, and I have to get those developed by me, others, etc. and that's more cost.


Like Ive asked in my previous post why dont you come out with the specs of your prototype so we the consumer can say if we would want one and not just can an announced product? You like mentioning you finish things, well not telling us specifics about the HMX to me is not finishing :roll: Robots sound good but I think you need to kill the HMX properly before starting the robots otherwise you will lose cred.


Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:51 am
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
Lazarus404 wrote:
Here's some examples

Of course, you don't have to use an iPhone. Maybe Android is the way to go? More freedom, that way.


Why cant the HMX be finished and used as the base instead of an Iphone? Iphones are expensive for people in my country. By developing for expensive smart phones you are losing markets such as mine. Also apple requires registration and development on apple systems which forces us to have an apple OS installed which to me is another reason I wouldnt buy it and if you wanted to do everything legally software wise its to expensive for this market. Wouldnt a HMX powered robot provide the ultimate flexibility with 8 cores and the possibilty for Andre to modify it according to our requirements and not work around some large mobile phone manufacturers design and be victim to our solutions being obsolete on newer phones like it happens with Iphone development. Maybe a chameleon type design would be better as you could leverage AVR solutions etc.


Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:21 pm
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
You know, that's a good idea. Build your own cell phone. That'd be an awesome talking point at parties :-) How many people have one of those?

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Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:06 pm
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
Its expensive..

http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9533

But im sure once you had a decent user base you could have an expansion card with that capability or maybe less risk would be just to show users how to interface with the one above.

It could be used in niche solutions such as remote logging for hunters that have automatic feeders they can be updated whether an animal has come to feed via sms. Or if you have a camera addon on as well the custom unit sends you a picture of which animal.

http://www.spyville.com/invisible-night ... amera.html


Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:48 am
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
I think what you're products need is some kind of bump or push from off side. Something that is centric to the product without necessarily being about the product. Communities and socializing are fun to people. Having an outlet for that would be a good way to draw in more people and develop interest in the stuff you make.

Take the Pico 3 you're working on. I think a good idea would be to have a sister site for it, something like gamejolt (http://gamejolt.com/) where people could go, login and upload their programs, talk about it with other people, share their experiences, and rate each others work.

There's nothing wrong with this site, but it seems more hardware and sales centric. It doesn't have the community feel and user interactivity that other sites have. I think this is one reason for the popularity of stuff like MultimediaFusion and GameMaker. Their sites are really community based and encourage a sharing of ideas. Half the fun of growing up playing video games was being able to talk to your friends about them. :D I think this is something you could take advantage of for the products you're making.


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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
I tried this with the Chameleons ,we made an off site website, just like arduino, the only thing it attracted was porn bots, etc. To get attention you need a lot of money, or a lot of luck, or good timing. In the last 25+ years of doing this stuff with both software and hardware, I have learned one thing. When something works, you have to do very little its "viral" to coin a term from these days, you couldn't stop it if you wanted to, when something doesn't work, could be the best product on earth, but somehow you just can't get sales, momentum, whatever unless you POUR money at it, so like Sun Tzu said, and I am paraphrasing, when you are in a bad position, better to retreat and try something new. So, instead of spending a ton of money, best to try something else.

None of this little kits are going to make ANYONE rich, the market is too small, too fragmented and way TOOOOOOOOO poor.

And the WORST thing you can do in business is get the opinion of customers :) If you think about it, unless you get 10,000 customers input, then doing what they think is cool usually means nothing to what other people think is cool. Steve Jobs was king at this, he said "I don't give a shit what customer want, they don't know what they want, I give them what they need". Paraphrasing again.

So, bottom line, I have to be careful, since its MY money, and its easy to spend a ton of it and make 0 ROI.

The most successful kit these days is probably the arduino, but NO ONE is getting rich. Its like the PC of baby embedded systems, a "standard" that's open source, so everyone can and has copied it, thus any single company is selling 10-100 units a month if that.

Aggregated maybe 10-100K/year around the world sell, but that's about it. Take that into 1000 companies selling the hardware and quickly you are making nothing practically.

What you want is something that crosses into consumer territory -- and the PICO 3 is not that, its another nerd product to replace my other PICO 2 nerd product.

That said, this is my dilema, what to make next that is my "next big thing". The era of the XGS that I started in 2003 is over more or less as a new concept, it has been copied by many people now, so the market is fragmented again, none of us can make any money.

So, I have to do something next that is nerdish, but still appeals to consumers --

However, the PICO 3 will have consumer appeal to young kids hopefully and parents, we will see...

I am working on too many "grown up" projects right now to think about this stuff, but soon I will have more time and I will come up with something cool :)

Andre'


Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:37 am
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
Firstly, with regard to existing products, there is much you can do that doesn't require money (at least, more money). What about selling via companies like Spark Fun and Makershed? Then there's RS, DigiKey, Maplin etc etc. This would help a LOT. Then, there's image. The Chameleon devices are purported as educational kits. Simply a way of learning how to use PIC / AVR / Propeller chips. However, I see something else. I see a ready made, VGA ready, audio ready central unit for embedded systems. The Chameleons are perfect for things like vending machines, coin chute management (car park ticket machines, change machines etc.), security access control (door systems etc) and many many more. All you need is an app and the odd RFID or some such components, and the skies the limit.

With regard to "The Next Big Thing", this is always going to be difficult. Unless you can produce iPhones on a shoestring, how are you going to provide something people want? What do people want? Can you provide it? Generally, there are three area's that that make electronics work -

    Need - heating, timing, reporting, management of some kind.
    Communication - I separate this from need, as it's such a big industry.
    Entertainment.

The first is actually the toughest, simply because, no one gets excited over need. I need a clock, but I'm not going to get excited over Wal-Mart's clock range. Best to let the hugely saturated market handle this.

The second and third are vastly covered, but still do have positions needing to be filled. Communication is managed by phones, but what about communication between non-humans? Or, seemless communication? Information is everywhere, but it's often disjointed. This is why I feel augmented reality will be so big.

Entertainment can come in many forms. For the moment, your robot idea fills this category, though independent robots will fill the "need" category more and more at some point in the future. The console / computer area of entertainment is already heavily covered by hi-tech consoles and computers, which is why I've always been interested in older computer emulation. Being able to make use of Nintendo / Sega roms in new technology pretending to be old technology. This has a good future for the right implementation. There's an implementation of this on the GP2X shop, but it's really undersold. You never hear anything of it in a Google search.

Finally, there's the consideration of merging all three aspects. For example, third world countries NEED computers that can provide ENTERTAINMENT and COMMUNICATION at an accessible price. This means low-tech technology or well placed tech. Having something like this will require huge amounts to be developed and distributed and will often be funded by larger organisations and charities. One of the projects I am involved with facilitates this. It provides a tool at the tenth of the price you would normally pay to do essentially the same thing, but without the glitz.

So, for example, XGS could build a fully internet capable 16 bit computer with browser with BASIC like programming capability. This would teach people in third world countries how to program computers but also give them access to the World Wide Web. There is a computer trying to facilitate this at a good price, but I don't think it covers internet access. However, imagine the penetration such a computer would have.

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Last edited by Lazarus404 on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:42 pm
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
@Lazarus,

Do you have any idea the amount of paperwork, legal, and months it takes to get a product into distribution? ITS VERY HARD. Sparkfun, is VERY picky, they are enemies of Parallax and thus won't distro anything I make, tried many times.

I have distro in edmond scientific took 2 years to make happen.

I have distro in mouser, took 3 years to make happen.

I have distro in thinkgeek took 2 years to make happen.

I have distro in make, took about 1 year.

and about 10-20 others... all the same story, a LOT of time for a little ROI...

Radio shack is IMPOSSIBLE to make a deal, 5-7 years is the usually lead time for a new product or company, took parallax 7 years to make a deal.

Finally, distros want 30-50% margin, that combined with a profit of 30-50% more or less means FREE. Can't do that.

Its really simple, the only way to appreciate how hard it is to get any product distributed, just make something and try, its a full time job just talking to one of these idiots, and we tapped over 200, every single company there is, and it just takes months and months, and they want ridiculous margins.

More or less, I have thought and tried every single thing you can imagine. As I say, with these kinds of products, no one is getting rich.

And all these high concept ideas, again, until you actually do something and ship a product, there are so many barriers to making things happen, money, contacts, legal, kick backs, governments, etc.

I tried years ago to do the low cost PC thing, I could design a $100 PC, then the idea was we were going to install an ultra low cost cell tower system, basically, wooden/metal poles in completely poor areas 20 ft off the ground, that broadcast wireless, then on the tower(s) are microwave tranceivers signaling to distribution points with internet access. Basically, for nothing, I could "internetify" a town with no electricity, phones, nothing, for a matter of $1000's of dollar, then give them 100's or 1000's of $100 PCs.

But, that was a can of worms, it was TOO good an idea, I thought a hit man was going to show up at my door.

So, the trick is to imagine, what can you afford to make 1000 to 10000 of with your own money, then how much can you spend on advertising and marketing, and then can you loose all of it? Since you probably will!

Thus, the trick is to come up with something that is a "hit" which in the low end arena NO ONE knows how to do, its all luck, timing,etc. In the high end arena, its EASY to make hit, if you have the huge financial resources to do it. Here's one make a game console that is 1000x more powerful than the XBOX, or an injectable computer that floats around in your blood stream measuring things, or a medical tricorder that can diagnose and has tera hz imaging... All doable -- but you need money.

Same idea for websites, I KNOW I can do a better website than amazon, or rottentomatoes, or ever facebook, but I would need massive money to do it, basically, copy and improve, simple, but EXPENSIVE.

But, I could make a site this weekend that could be a hit, but what site? And each day about 1000000000000 people try it, and put a useless site out there, if there was a formula to it, we would all be rich.

Back to hardware, its SOOO expensive, you have to be really careful, and look at trends and what people want by correlating sales, then its hard to get a new product in front of them.

I used to advertise in EVERY single electronics mag, CC, N&V, EPE, Silicon Chip, and others. I would make money doing this, but NOT enough, I would put in a $500 ad, and make $2000 back, not enough ROI, nothing caught. And I used to go to all the stupid trade shows another waste of money.

So, again brings me to the "viral" phenomena, right place, right time, right product -- a very hard thing to do. IF it wasn't everyone on this board would be rich! :)

Andre'


Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:21 am
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Post Re: HYDRA 2 - HYDRA MOBILE XTREME going for pre-order soon!!
necron wrote:
Do you have any idea the amount of paperwork, legal, and months it takes to get a product into distribution? ITS VERY HARD. Sparkfun, is VERY picky, they are enemies of Parallax and thus won't distro anything I make, tried many times.


I didn't say it was easy :-) I just said it was an avenue that doesn't require money.

I've played the website game, too. I was building sites that made millions back in '99 / '00. Just not for me. IMHO, nothing really works unless it has millions of daily hits. Making money online isn't the "new business arena" that the media make it out to be. However, I do have ideas.

Most of my money making schemes these days involve building the tools that make making money simpler. However, the guys making the money are making more than I am. I have other ideas that involve just the websites, but I won't post these to a forum ;-)

My bottom line is, money is rarely made from the consumer. It's made from the guys that make money from the consumer. There are a ton of companies out there that deal with consumers. Providing a means to help them make money or save money can mean making money at our end, whatever that might be. Most of my current ideas revolve around this. In fact, the ideas that I think will work best involve taking money from those companies that don't actually provide any product whatsoever :-D

If you'd like to discuss them, send me an email.

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Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:33 am
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